SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OhItsYou, Very good point, you probably saw on an earlier post that we’ve talked about the affair no more than 45 minutes total over a 33 year period so any questions she would answer would really help in my healing!

you probably saw on an earlier post that we’ve talked about the affair no more than 45 minutes total over a 33 year period so any questions she would answer would really help in my healing!

If you’re not willing to enforce any consequences for her refusal to talk about this, then why exactly do you think she’d ever start?

gr8ful, good question! I don’t think forcing consequences after three decades of me not forcing them would do much good. I don’t expect her to talk, she said she would talk if I wanted to but as far as she’s concerned it’s just bringing up a painful subject, I can’t get her to see it from my point of view so I just left it alone.

I was hoping that one day she would set me down and explain everything to me but I know that’s unlikely to happen.
33 years is a long time so over the years I just never brought it up until my trigger 2 years ago.

I went about everything wrong when she told be about her affair. I would’ve loved to have had a resource like SI to guide me but I didn’t. I didn’t talk to anyone about it so I didn’t get any advice either. I went it alone and tried my best to figure it out for myself. Protecting my son was always my number one priority and I put up with a lot for him. I hid my pain and tried to be a good Dad so I pushed all the affair stuff to the back burner and unfortunately left it there to simmer! 20/20 hindsight stings sometimes!

Just my own humble opinion here. There are no statutes of limitations on infidelity.

Just my own humble opinion here. There are no statutes of limitations on infidelity.

Agreed Unhinged.

she said she would talk if I wanted to but as far as she’s concerned it’s just bringing up a painful subject, I can’t get her to see it from my point of view so I just left it alone.

31RS:

Have you ever asked your WW what she would do if you were to have an affair? If so, what was her response? Would it be no big deal to her or would it be a deal breaker and an automatic divorce? Surely, you've questioned her on this point.. if not you need to do it ASAP. Also, how has she acted over the years if another woman was acting nice to you or even mildly flirting with you in front of her? Insanely jealous, no big deal?

I'm not advising you to have a revenge affair but it may kick start further discussions with your WW if she believes you may be considering such an option. Or other options such as seeking a separation or a divorce. I don't mean to offend you 31RS but your WW may think of you as being such a doormat since you rug swept her affair that she thinks she has you so pussy whipped that you're coiled around her finger. It's obvious that she didn't respect you when she was having her affair-- has anything changed since then or does it still continue?

By asking these questions, you might be able to make her see it from your point of view. Let her consider what it may feel like if the shoe was on the other foot. I have a feeling from how and what you posted that you are a good, kind, righteous and honorable man. Your WW used these characteristics against you. Your willingness to rug sweep and seemingly to forgive your WW with no consequences since the affair has only reinforced these beliefs with your WW. It's gone on for so long that your WW is just hoping to let the clock wind down.

You're only 61- you're not dead. You probably have another 20-30 years to live. Tell her you don't want to be living in an assisted living home with her, still thinking of the past. Make her think you are truly considering your options and I bet she starts to open up.

If she still refuses to talk, use her own language against her-- tell her you're a "different person" since your panic attack and that you're going to go have a conversation with your son and then walk away.

Unhinged, you’re exactly right!

NukeZombie, I sure did! I asked her what if I took my old girlfriend (we had broken up over a year before I met my current wife) to supper then we went to a hotel. My wife said she wouldn’t be surprised which absolutely shocked me! I’ve been faithful and loyal to my current wife since I met her. I guess maybe she thinks I see the world the same way she does.

You brought up something I hadn’t thought about, I can remember on at least three occasions that when a women talked to me or joked with me that my wife would be very jealous and let me know about it in the car on the way home. Two of these were in church and the other was a company picnic. Please understand I don’t flirt, I am very standoffish and overly polite and am always close to my wife when we’re out.

I always wondered how she could respect me since she suffered absolutely no repercussions for her infidelity! I get frustrated thinking about it sometimes.

I retired from the military and I did a couple of one year tours in Korea. Let me tell you, everyone was screwing around. It was like high school with unlimited alcohol! The chain of command told us if you’re gonna screw around make sure the person you screw around with has more to lose than you, honest to God statement!
Opportunities to cheat were literally everywhere and my first trip over was 3 months after my wife told me about her affair.
My secret to staying faithful in that environment was this, first, never drink enough to affect your judgement and second, always think in that moment how you will feel the next morning and third and Ironically the strongest reason that I had for not cheating was that I couldn’t imagine putting my wife through the pain she put me through!

BTW NukeZombie, you did not offend me at all, I understand in here that everyone’s comments are sincerely out of concern and I appreciate the help. I’ve been seeing things the same way for so long that I sometimes have trouble seeing things from a different perspective which is what you good folks supply!

BTW NukeZombie, you did not offend me at all, I understand in here that everyone’s comments are sincerely out of concern and I appreciate the help. I’ve been seeing things the same way for so long that I sometimes have trouble seeing things from a different perspective which is what you good folks supply!

What do you think about NukeZombie's suggestion about introducing some potential consequences? Many of us here suffered and put up with apathy and a lack of understanding from our WSes until some real consequences were introduced. I think Nuke gave you a pretty good template to start with.

You're only 61- you're not dead. You probably have another 20-30 years to live. Tell her you don't want to be living in an assisted living home with her, still thinking of the past. Make her think you are truly considering your options and I bet she starts to open up.

If she still refuses to talk, use her own language against her-- tell her you're a "different person" since your panic attack and that you're going to go have a conversation with your son and then walk away.

It's not jumping straight to divorce talk, but it might plant a seed that lets her know you know your worth and might consider exploring your options if she won't give you what you need. That being some sort of closure and a chance to start really healing. Have you let her know how much this has been eating at you and how rug sweeping it was a bad idea?

If she read that book she should know how devastating this is. I whole-heartedly agree with Unhinged. There is no statute of limitations on infidelity. If she doesn't want you dwelling on the past then she can try to help you put it to rest.

Pogre, I’m pretty sure she knows how bad this has been eating at me. I had to shut down bedroom activities for the past 5 months because her AP kept entering my mind. But I had to balance everything because I noticed right after I shut down the bedroom activities that I was drifting away from her in my mind.
I told her we needed to resume bedroom activities because they made me feel closer to her. We don’t make love we have sex, as I’m sure most here are aware that ended on disclosure! We agreed if I couldn’t continue because her AP suddenly entered my mind that we would just try some other time. Problem is keeping him out of my head but I recently learned about ways to try and fix that.

I’m sure I’d be labeled a simp by some folks because I didn’t stand up for myself and compromised my dignity and self respect. You guys are right, how can my wife respect someone who tolerates what she did!

I’m very interested in NukeZombies comment about introducing potential consequences. I’ve obviously put up with apathy and lack of understanding.

It’s kind of of ironic how people comment about our wonderful marriage for over 40 years. They ask what our secret is and I always think to myself "lack of accountability"

About 3 months ago were talking in the truck driving home from the grocery store and I’m not sure why she brought it up but she asked me if I would remarry if something happened to her and I immediately said "no". She was surprised how fast I said no, she asked was it because we’ve been married so long that I didn’t want to start over and I said no, I would never remarry because I’ll never trust another woman. I told her I can’t go through that pain ever again because it’s so horrific. It was a quiet ride the rest of the way home! So yes, she knows how bad this affects me.

I’m sure I’d be labeled a simp by some folks because I didn’t stand up for myself and compromised my dignity and self respect. You guys are right, how can my wife respect someone who tolerates what she did!

Simp? Not here. Absolutely not. We all know how incredibly hard it is to survive infidelity, even with the incredible help, guidance, support and wisdom offered by this community. To have tried to survive it on your own is incredibly brave and admirable.

I think you're making a terrible assumption about your wife's opinion of you for staying. In 31 years has she said or done anything that would belie such an opinion?

***

In the pull-down menu at the top of the page you'll find a link to The Healing Library. In the "Articles" section you'll find a wealth of excellent essays written by veteran SI members. I highly recommend checking them out.

31RS,

...your WW may think of you as being such a doormat since you rug swept her affair that she thinks she has you so pussy whipped that you're coiled around her finger.

I’m sure I’d be labeled a simp by some folks because I didn’t stand up for myself and compromised my dignity and self respect. You guys are right, how can my wife respect someone who tolerates what she did!
I’m very interested in NukeZombies comment about introducing potential consequences. I’ve obviously put up with apathy and lack of understanding.

Your voice is beginning to change. Make sure it is because of wisdom gained not bitterness absorbed.

Asterisk

I'm not big on consequences. Fear of consequences hasn't been enough to prevent nasty behavior, and consequences for betrayal don't prevent them by definition.

IMO, recovering from being betrayed requires the BS to look inside, figure out what they want, ask for it, and deal with the consequences.

But the BS has to ask. The BS has to assert themself. The ask has to be a request that the WS can accept or reject. Acceptance probably helps the relationship continue. Rejection probably damages the relationship.

You know your sitch better than we do. You know where your best interests lie better than we do. But you could be wrong about that. Like others, I see a vital 61 year old man who has a lot of life to give. IMO, you really might be better without your W than with her, unless she gives you the disclosures you want, to the best of her ability. And she probably won't do that unless you ask for it.

Also IMO, I think a good IC can help you. I think you are probably stifling yourself, and you don't have to. A good IC can help you find, enhance, and assert your strengths. If I'm right about that, you, your W, and the people around you will probably benefit.

My therapy is reading this forum and writing poetry. I’ve poured my heart out writing some
painful poems but the reason I chose poetry over journaling is that poetry gives me a beginning and an end to what I write. This might sound strange but I can wrap the painful thoughts beginning to end in a poem. Doesn’t fix anything but it sorta puts the pain inside a box so to speak!

I haven't gotten through this whole thread yet, but as soon as I saw this part I needed to write about how cool this is, especially the beginning and end element. I need to try this.

So you haven't done everything wrong. This part is really great, and could help others.

First off, I think she could live with an hour of berating from you and a counselor. Why is that such a hard boundary for her, if you ask? If that will give you some peace, which it could, finally confronting her in a safe environment where you will have an advocate, why is she is not willing?!?! Why is she not the one calling up and setting up the appointment? If she is not willing to do this, what is she willing to do? pretend to read a book? Agree to begrudgingly listen at some future date? That's not love.

Second: One of the best steps to reconciliation articulated on this forum is the written timeline. If She could write out everything she remembers, then she is forced to confront it in black and white. Maybe at that point she can begin to express a little remorse.

31RS:

While everyone here can offer advice and suggestions, only you know your wife, you and the relationship the best. Several decades of marriage is a lot to unpack but watch out for falling into the sunk cost fallacy. You only have 1 life to live. The most important day in your life is tomorrow. How do you want to live and feel tomorrow?

To be honest 31RS, your story upon examination almost personally offends me. I know all betrayal is bad but your betrayal by your WW almost makes me recoil.

First, I come from a military family. I have lived through deployments. While in college, I had a military contract to become a naval officer upon commission and graduation until a physical at a Naval Reserve base the summer before my junior year resulted in the Navy withdrawing my contract (one of my life's biggest regrets and had me scrambling to reorient my career goals.) I know the sacrifice military members and their families go through, so thank you for your service to our country. I also know that military families (even back in the early 90s) are formally advised and counseled by the military about how hard deployments can be. Services are offered to assist them. Adultery is still common even after all the warnings are given. Your wife was a military wife- she knew the hardships and dangers. She knew how important the training deployment was to your career. So, while you were serving your country she decides to have an affair.

Second, your wife's malicious intent to have an affair. As you wrote, she didn't develop feelings for a coworker while feeling lonely. This wasn't a drunk ONS on a night out with a bunch of friends providing peer pressure to live a little when she felt the tingles of a guy hitting on her.

No, she was angry with you and she wanted to hurt you. She wanted to punish you.

She WEAPONIZED sex.

Once wasn't enough. No, she had to dig the knife deeper and she went back and f'd him again (according to her story which you should take with a grain of salt.) She could have taken this to the grave. I'm sure you would have no way of knowing what she did while you were deployed- being before cell phones and the internet. She could have kept her secret to herself when you came back. She could have used her memories with the OM to ruminate on as her dirty little secret and revenge if she ever got angry with you in the future or during her alone time while fantasizing. But, that wouldn't have had an impact or effect on you. So, she tells you of the affair and her actions when you get back to hurt you. She put your emotional health, physical health (even if protected sex) and career at risk to punish you. By telling you, she also implicitly threatens that if you ever angered her enough again in the future, she could and would do this again.

This cannot be described in any other way than malicious. Heck, I wouldn't argue if someone described it as evil.

You may think you love her. My question to you would be "why?"

I think you can appreciate her as the mother of your son. But love her? Could you do what she did to someone you truly loved?

Ok back to the salt mine... Consequences are important. Some may argue that they aren't. But 31RS I think you lived and felt what rug sweeping and lack of consequences leads to- even after 31 years. If you want I can offer my thoughts later.

Consequences are important.

Removing external consequences in the hope that moral integrity, guilt, or internal remorse will prevent future betrayal is a gamble. It relies on trusting the self-regulation of someone who has already demonstrated a compromised moral compass. While internal remorse might suffice in rare instances, at the initial point of betrayal, you simply do not know what kind of character you are dealing with. That makes established, clear consequences paramount.

Consequences are a foundational pillar of human organization. We have built entire societal structures around them—our legal framework, the justice system, and social standards all rely on clear, enforced outcomes to maintain trust and order. Failing to enforce consequences in the face of significant betrayal isn't noble; it is dangerous, lazy, and often cowardly.

Unhinged, thanks for the info on the Healing Library and for clarifying me not being a "simp"!

As far as my assumption about my wife’s opinion of me, she’s not disrespectful and for the most part is kind to me.
I just thought what if the roles were reversed, I would be wondering why she would go on like nothing happened the way I did after she dropped the bombshell on me. I would wonder if she had any dignity or self respect by not holding me accountable.
So yeah, just a role reversal to see how I’d feel but probably not an accurate way to look at it.

Asterisk, I assure you it’s wisdom gained. I’ve been getting lots of good advice after 33 years of nothing so it’s kinda like I just dove off the deep end and am trying to absorb, dissect and ponder all the good info!

sisoon, thanks for replying. I’ll sit down with my wife and have her answer my questions. What she says will tell me a lot. We’ve talked twice in 33 years so probably a "little" overdue. I don’t really want to threaten her I just want her to answer my questions.
You’re the 3rd person to suggest IC so it’s probably a good idea for me to try it. It will be tough after 33 years to let it all out but I probably need to do just that!

CantBeMeEither, thanks for letting me know I wasn’t completely wrong lol.
Yes, the poetry is amazingly therapeutic having a beginning and an end vs. journaling at least for me. Try it you might find it works for you! I might post some here eventually, some of it’s pretty raw but you never know it might help someone. Maybe others on here write poetry, we could start an awesome thread!!

I never considered the written timeline since so many years have gone by. When I had my big trigger 2 years ago I told her she will sit down and tell me everything that happened before I lose my mind! I could tell she was scared not of me being violent but of me about to lose my mind.
She told me everything at that time, no TT. She told me she strongly regrets what she did but she never told me anything in 31 years until I forced her to. I’m not sure what would happen if I had her write it down.
As far as therapy, she’s definitely not interested in IC but she said if it would help me she would go to MC even though she convinced it will be all about her being a terrible person. It seems like she would need IC to figure herself out before MC to figure our relationship out but I’m not positive.

Thanks everybody, I truly appreciate your help!

DRSOOLERS, you are exactly right about not enforcing consequences, I was wrong not to do that and I know I could now but it would be different than doing it when it first happened. She’s not the same person, I truly believe person she is now wouldn’t commit adultery.

NukeZombie, Hopefully I didn’t misunderstand you, she didn’t do this when I was deployed. Gonna clarify but it’s going to expose me a little.
I was in the Army, we were stationed at Fort Rucker, Alabama. I was going through rotary wing flight training to be an Army helicopter pilot. This course was very difficult and it took 14 months start to finish.
This isn’t like civilian flight training, they used to yell and cuss you out while you’re trying to learn how to fly back then. If you couldn’t cut it you were sent wherever the Army needed you but flight school was over for you. Soldiers were lined up to get into that course so if you washed out it made no difference.
This was my environment when my wife cheated on me. I had 3 months left and had just transitioned into an advanced aircraft when she punished me for not paying enough attention to her!
If I had gone to my Commander and told him what my wife had done he would’ve immediately pulled me out of the course. It was too difficult a course to have something so terrible in your mind. So I didn’t say anything but I struggled every day after she told me.
Could you imagine flying multi ship formations at 2:00 in the morning wearing night vision goggles while thinking about my wife having sex with another man to punish me? I’m absolutely amazed I didn’t crash during the training although I did get close to having a midair twice!
I told my wife this was going to be a very difficult course for me and I needed her to be strong because I would be spending a lot of time in training. Anyway, now you guys know more of my story.
NukeZombie, I look forward to hearing more from you.

she said if it would help me she would go to MC even though she convinced it will be all about her being a terrible person.

Admittedly I have no experience with MC, but from what I gather it wouldn't necessarily about making her a terrible person. In fact, if you're not careful you could end up with a MC who might wrongly place some of the blame on you. So be wary of that if you do go. One question you could ask a potential counselor is if they operate from the unmet needs model because it's the wrong model for dealing with infidelity.

Thanks Pogre, I’ll definitely keep that in mind, "unmet needs model" is a no go!

31RS,

From your responses you recognize that you are receiving a variety of ideas and suggestions. And clearly you are evaluating them with an open mind (and heart).

Three areas where you’re and my paths cross are; how long-ago infidelity occurred, over 3 decades of self-managing all the painful issues that arise, and wives who are not open about their process. (Not being verbal, does not equate to not doing internal work.) My wife processes internally. I don’t like it. I don’t get it. It drives me nuts at times. I will admit that there are moments I want to reach down her throat and drag the words out of her. But my lack of understanding, my not getting things done the exact way I think they should be done does not mean she isn’t working at being a safer, kinder, faithful partner. (That said, open discussion is what I believe to be the best at arriving at a good conclusion.)

I believe that a lot of what is being strongly (I believe overly so) "suggested", (forced discloser, forced counseling, forced conversations, applied CONSIQUNCES, even divorce (really) is missing the point of where I hear you saying you and your wife are today.

Near 60 years of age she is probably not like she was in her late 20’s. I doubt many of are the same person we were 33 years ago. Hopefully, both the betrayed spouse and the wayward spouse are wiser, more mature, and better at self-reflection. If so, I ask, do they need to be punished more than they punish themselves?

You say that your wife is kind to you and that you enjoy each other’s company. I have read nothing from you that suggests otherwise. I feel the same way about my wife. I’d add that the love between us far exceeds the early years when we were just kids. So why now turn to being the taskmaster? Why the need to apply additional consequences beyond those that most of any grown adult who did something as outrageous and hurtful as cheating would place on themselves?

I do not need to threaten punishment or abandonment to get what I believe I need or deserve. If it is not given willingly, then what is the benefit? I want my wife to be faithful, not because of a contract we signed when we were teenagers. Not because of religious convictions. Not because "there will be hell to pay if she isn’t!" Not even because it is the right thing to do. I want her faithfulness to be given as a free gift not as an avoidant to punishment-full stop.

Not enforcing consequences beyond the natural penalties and cost while being patient with a wayward who doesn’t fully get it, is not being dangerous, lazy and definitely not cowardly. (I cannot believe I read those words on this page and site!) This is tuff stuff that nearly every one of us were entirely unprepared to deal with. We are trying with every fiber of our being to find our way through this. That goes for both the betrayed and the wayward. Words like those are uncalled for. It is noble when waywards and betrayeds allow for each other to trip up, stumble around, fall flat on their face as the each try to reconcile with themselves and each other. IT IS NOT COWARDLY, PERIOD!

Asterisk