SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you both so much for these replies.

​Bruce, thank you for that explanation about the ED medication. Looking at it as the 'price' he had to pay to keep that dopamine hit and validation coming makes a tragic kind of sense. It explains why he put in so much bizarre effort for someone whose looks or personality certainly weren't the prize.

​b3199, your words hit deep. You are completely right—right now, I am trying so hard to make this work while leaving myself entirely vulnerable to ongoing trauma. What you said about my husband's definition of 'reconciliation' being a simple return to the status quo, no matter how much I am suffering, is the hard truth I’ve been wrestling with. He wants the emergency to be over so he doesn't have to face it, while I am left holding the burns.

​The hardest part of this daily reality is that whenever I react to his coldness and indifference, I suddenly become the problem. For the last couple of weeks, he has been completely cold and distant; when I ask him why, he just turns it around and says I am always the angry one, completely ignoring that my reaction is a direct response to his emotional absence.

​The idea of divorce does terrify me, but the thought of living in this endless anxiety and emotional limbo forever is even scarier. Shifting my mindset away from fearing the end of the marriage, and toward refusing to stay in a marriage where he refuses to do the work, is the exact strength I need to find. And I will definitely take your advice to ask The1stWife what her game changer was.

​Thank you both for your kindness, your wisdom, and for keeping me grounded. It means the world.

Hi Pat77,
I'm so sorry you are going through this, it is not fair and you did not deserve it.
I'm here to validate your suspicions of chemical and/or psychological manipulation. I am a person who has experienced something similar. Even if there was no outside chemical drug used on him (although I think it's possible he was drugged) the psychological manipulation is also 100% chemical. Others have mentioned the dopamine addiction an affair can cause. But it takes a special kind of abuse and emotional manipulation to get a person do things they do not want to do, like having sex with someone they are not attracted to, even when there is no physical arousal.
I can't 100% say what the situation with your husband and this other woman was, but I am pulling together some small threads in your story that make me suspect he was manipulated and probably psychologically abused. Do not discount this as an area of exploration.
I'm afraid this post is going to be really long and I don't want to get off in the weeds. But it took a least a year for me to START to tease out what the real story was. Because at first he said it was an emotional affair, but the more we talked I kept getting these "wait/what?" moments of things that just did not make sense. For context my long story short is: We hired a sociopath as an employee in our business. They trauma bonded my husband for entertainment and special treatment. They coerced him into betraying me for leverage. When they were found out they claimed sexual harassment, threatened to sue, tried to extort us (because they had no case). It was extremely difficult to get my brain around because of the trauma (yes, you are probably suffering from PTSD) and he had not yet been able to face the abuse. He had been conditioned in this other relationship to take the blame for everything, and he continued to blame himself for the whole debacle, when really there were plenty of "receipts" to show the manipulation and control this person was after. I have the benefit of having worked with this person as well on a day to day basis, and had some context for many of the incidents, even though they were happening below my radar.
This woman your husband was involved with was a stranger, so there may not be a lot of checking you can do. But I’m pretty confidant based on what you have said that this woman marked and targeted you husband for abuse. I can’t say why she did it but leave open the possibility that she is just a sick person who needs to control others to make herself feel powerful. You said, "It seems she just used manipulation to trap him for a good life", so maybe the motivation was the help he gave her? Was there financial assistance? It doesn’t really matter.
I’d love to say more, but you will need to tease out for yourself what is true and what is an excuse. For our relationship, I have to say there is no excuse for the betrayal (We do not call it an affair anymore). Emotional abuse and manipulation are reasons, but my husband is 100% accountable for not protecting himself, and our relationship from it. It is devastating. But the fact is he was not well, he was batshit crazy – and some of that crazy he did to himself but a lot of it was designed and constructed by this shitty person. When it comes right down to it, we all want to know "How could you do this to me?" For us the only answer that feels true and allows us to continue reconciliation is "I was bat shit crazy".
Last thing, I want to encourage you to get into individual counseling. I don’t think a marriage counselor can help as this isn’t "a relationship issue". It’s a him issue. He did something very wrong and hurtful and you need help healing from that, whether he’s willing to be involved or not, and frankly I don’t think he’s earned the right. I don’t think he is going to be safe until he figures out what happened and takes some ownership of being vulnerable to this attack. If he can get his own counselor and start to understand why he made all these bad decisions and allowed himself to get trapped in this onesided dynamic, there is some hope for your marriage. We have been at it for 3 ½ years and thigs are getting better.

The affair partner knew how to play the game.

She threatened to tell the betrayed wife XYZ unless he did what she wanted.

He was pressured at times but he always had the ability to make a choice to end the affair. Except her threats were very real to him.

So he’s not accountable b/c in his mind "she did it". lol. 😂

Not a good place to be IMO.

Thank you so much, WaxingGibbous for sharing your story and for validating this perspective. What you described about the psychological manipulation and trauma bonding—where a person is coerced or conditioned into doing things completely out of character—resonates so deeply with the confusion I’ve been living in.

​It is so hard for people on the outside to understand how a normal, stoic person can suddenly act like a robot, completely disconnected from reality, just to chase an artificial high or fulfill someone else's control. Your point about how it takes time to tease out the real story—and how those 'wait, what?' moments never seemed to add up—feels so familiar.

​Like you said, even if there was severe psychological manipulation and a sick dynamic at play, it doesn't erase the betrayal, and he is still 100% accountable for letting it happen and failing to protect our relationship. The hardest part right now is that he isn't doing the work to figure out what happened, and instead just wants to sweep it under the rug and blame me for being angry.

​Thank you also for the advice about individual counseling. You are completely right that this is a 'him' issue and a trauma issue for me, not just a standard marriage counseling problem (like we did try but didn't work). Your insight gives me a lot to think about regarding what true safety and healing actually look like. I really appreciate your kindness. 🙏

Hi The1stwife,

That 'lol' says it all! It really is wild how they twist reality to protect their own ego, acting like helpless victims while completely ignoring that they always had a choice.

​By the way, someone mentioned earlier that you navigated a similar phase when your husband was stuck in these kinds of mental loops. What was the turning point or 'game changer' for you when it came to stopping the cycle of trying to lead reconciliation and starting to emotionally detach? I'd love to know how you found the strength to shift the focus back to your own sanity.

Thank you for sharing that!
By the way, have you posted your full story or journey somewhere on the forum? I'd love to read it and see how you navigated getting through this phase.

​

By the way, someone mentioned earlier that you navigated a similar phase when your husband was stuck in these kinds of mental loops. What was the turning point or 'game changer' for you when it came to stopping the cycle of trying to lead reconciliation and starting to emotionally detach? I'd love to know how you found the strength to shift the focus back to your own sanity.

I don't want to speak for The1stWife, but I've seen her talk often about this and it sticks with me because we both used a similar tactic. That was to begin the divorce process. I don't remember how far she got into the process, but I do know she told her husband she'd had enough, and he was free to do what he wanted, but not while remaining married to her. She meant it and he knew she meant it. That was the turning point for them, iirc.

I put up with about a month of my wife's callous behavior and continued contact with her AP before I hit my limit and started calling divorce lawyers and set up consultations right in front of her. Within about a week she had put in for a work transfer (ap was a co worker), blocked him, and rolled her sleeves and began real work on repairing the damage she had done.

I don't want to come across as saying "file or threaten divorce and he'll snap right out of it," because I don't know your husband and some wayward spouses might even double down, but I think if there's a chance to save a marriage sometimes being willing to let it go really works. You want to make sure you really mean it if you do tho. Like I said sometimes a wayward will call you on it and backpedaling could just blow up in your face.

I didn't really want a divorce, but I decided that living in infidelity and uncertainty with a remorseless spouse was worse than divorce. I wanted out of that. She could choose to come with me or not. If she didn't want to follow me out of it then I didn't want to be married to her anymore.

[This message edited by Pogre at 12:46 AM, Saturday, September 12th]

Pogre,

​Thank you for sharing this. Your perspective—and the reminder about what it takes to stop spinning your wheels—really hits home.

​What you described about reaching a point where living in uncertainty and a one-sided "reconciliation" becomes worse than the thought of divorce itself... that is precisely where I feel I am hovering right now.

​Right now, I am completely exhausted. He treats me like a polite roommate—there is no overt fighting, just a chilling emotional distance where he avoids any real contact, refuses the simple steps I asked for to rebuild safety, and turns my pain around by calling it "anger" or "demands." It feels terrifyingly similar to the behavior he exhibited when he was actively stepping out, like he's just waiting for me to get tired enough to break and take the lead on leaving.

​The hardest part is knowing that if I take that step—if I stop leading this charge and genuinely put my foot down—I have to be ready for either outcome. I have to be willing to actually walk away if he chooses to keep hiding behind his avoidance rather than doing the real work.

​How did you manage to quiet the fear when you made that shift? Did you find that your resolve wavered at first, and how did you keep your focus entirely on your own sanity instead of waiting for him to step up?

Thanks 🤗

How did you manage to quiet the fear when you made that shift? Did you find that your resolve wavered at first, and how did you keep your focus entirely on your own sanity instead of waiting for him to step up.

Pat,
This is a rough ride and you are doing as well as anyone can. Be proud of yourself and how strong you are.

We do hard things. But for me, it was when I realized I was more afraid of my relationship staying the way it was more than D. And yes, there was wavering. But D takes time- 6 months or more in many places. So there is time after you file to work through the jitters, and it can be stopped at any point along that way if some miracle occurs and your WS pulls his head out of his @$$. But if he doesn’t get his $h*t together, then at least you don’t have to wait another 6 months or whatever to get free.

As for the focus, that is a great question. Many of us BS were the givers. We were always thinking of the other and put their wants/needs first. Now it is a habit. It takes concerted effort to undo that habit just like any habit. And it is not always comfortable. But you just keep trying and it gets easier with time. Frankly, even if you end R, this is a good thing to do. The dynamic of a new "r’d" marriage needs to be different than the previous one. And if you D, this will help you in your new beginnings and next relationships.

It makes good sense to just get your ducks in a row. Get finances, important documents, etc all together and understand what D might look like. Meet with a few lawyers to make sure you understand what that could look like (facts, not fears or assumptions). This helps reduce the fear of the unknown by making it known. Knowledge is POWER.

And you might get value from the pinned post in the S/D forum on "Fear vs Reality". So many fears never some true.

My therapist told me I would know when I knew. He was 100% right. So get your ducks in a row, watch his actions instead of listening to words, and you will know. Value yourself.

Sending strength and virtual ((((hugs)))). Infidelity sucks.

I think my situation was a little more drastic than yours at this moment. I don't mean to downplay yours tho. The lack of remorse and blame shifting is incredibly painful by itself. Trust me, I know.

While my wife ended the physical relationship, ceased most communications outside of work, and claimed it was a "just friends" situation now, it still felt insincere and she wasn't very remorseful.

I broke down and got into her messages. Her thread with him was set up for auto delete so I couldn't see what was said, but I saw the frequency and more than a few voice chats, some as long as 3½ hours.

She had all of her messages with her friends intact tho, and I read those and discovered that she had lied to me about the depth of their relationship, was still pining for him, and was saying unflattering things about me. What I read that day gutted me. It made my decision much easier. I had decided that if I had to live with someone who was remorseless and lacked basic decency and respect my life was just going to be miserable.

When she got home from work I confronted her about her messages and she tried to downplay them, even knowing I had just read them. I said something very similar to what The1stWife said and told her if she wanted him she could have him and started calling lawyers. She stood there and watched me set up 3 consultations. I was very calm, cool, and resigned, but on the inside I was screaming "FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, STOP ME FROM DOING THIS!"

When I started talking about how we were going to handle the house and looking up real estate agents she broke in a way I'd never seen her break before. She was hysterical. I don't think she thought I'd really do it, but I had reached my limit.

I don't know if you've had that moment yet, but even when I thought we were done and I was making those calls there was a sense of relief and liberation. I was getting out of a horrible situation one way or another. If that meant divorce, then so be it.

From what you're typing it doesn't sound like your husband is remorseful and I think your instinct might be right. He might be waiting for you to pull the trigger so he doesn't have to. If that's the case I'm so sorry that you're in this position, but you have to ask yourself if you're willing to continue living with a coward who doesn't want to be there anyway.

You're not the bad guy here. Even if you initiate a divorce and he tells you its your fault for ending the marriage he's the one who ended it by cheating on you. That's what killed it. Not you for not wanting to be with a remorseless unrepentant cheater.

The old marriage is permanently dead. The only hope is to build a new one on a new foundation built on transparency, trust, and respect. And it will take both if you to do the work of laying that foundation. Otherwise it's just going to be a continuation of the marriage that led to this disaster to begin with. You have to decide what you want, and then stick to your guns, accept your decision, and follow through with it.

BB gave you some great advice above. Starting the divorce process isn't the same as instantly ending the marriage. It takes time and you can pause or stop it altogether if there's a miracle turnaround and he comes to his senses. I think you should at the very least get a few free consultations, if possible, and at least get an idea of what you'd be facing if it comes to it. You don't even necessarily have to tell him you're doing it if you're not ready, and it will take some of the fear of the unknown out of the equation for you.

Sending virtual hugs your way.

I hate using the word 'power' when it comes to relationships, because you are supposed to be a team moving forward through life. But the plain truth is, particularly when dealing with infidelity, it is the one who is less invested in the relationship who holds the power--because they have less to 'lose'. That is why we so often recommend that the betrayed spouse concentrate on detaching emotionally when their partner is not showing any real effort to repair the relationship.

I remember as plain as day one conversation I had with my wife when we(or at least, I) were at one of our lowest moments after discovery. I told her that I know she is not nearly as emotionally committed to the marriage as I am, but I am working, REAL HARD, on getting there myself. And the one thing that I can guarantee when I get to that point is that I will not know for certain whether I will want to attempt reconciling--no matter what your desire is at that point. Like Pogre said, it's very liberating to actually feel like you are taking back control of your life.

Believe me, that mentality can't be faked or bluffed to your partner. They will KNOW that you mean what you say and what you do. Because its authentic.

Without involving hypnosis in the picture his behavior is nothing short that the usual low self worth finding a dopamine high.

As you may know hypnosis is a therapeutic technique, involving relaxation of the nervous system, and it works best when there is a predisposition to it.

Cheaters have a predisposition to the affair because the dopamine response calms their nervous system allowing it to relax with the affair partner (escapism) and the contrast between the rotten behavior and the shame makes it all the more soothing to them, reinforcing an addictive cycle.

So yeah it may look to you he is hypnotized because the effects are somewhat similar affecting behaviors, but is nothing but betrayal and the emotional chemical highs and low it produces in the cheater.

About the affair partner being ugly enough that even the comparison offends you.

Also normal, betrayal is not normal dating and mating, you are not competing with this woman, if he was single he wouldn’t have to blink before deciding what woman to pick.

Cheaters would take on literal garbage as long as they are there and available. It is not choosing a person for who they are, is picking anything that works as a simulacrum for the projection of their insecurities and who provides validation and hence dopamine to a fucked up ego.

If the AP is ugly and low value in comparison to their BS, they may feel paradoxically even better, as they knowing they have already better options puts them ahead and in control of the affair (in their mind, they aren’t in full control, they are simply full of s…).

This is not choosing the better woman, this is more alike being used to dine at a top rated healthy restaurant and sneaking away in the middle of the course to grab the foulest junk food that will give you worms and stuffing yourself with that instead.

Ask around, it’s pretty common the AP is the inferior choice, but still trumps the BS every single time during the affair fog.

You deserve better. Put yourself first.

BearlyBreathing, Pogre, jb3199, and BackfromtheStorm,

​Thank you all so much for taking the time to share these insights and holding space for me. Reading through your stories and advice hits both hard and deep.

​What stood out to me the most is what BearlyBreathing and Pogre mentioned about reaching the point where living in this constant uncertainty and emotional coldness is actually more terrifying than the thought of divorce itself. Right now, that is the exact space I am trapped in. He treats me like a polite roommate—there are no explosive fights anymore, just a chilling emotional distance where he avoids any real contact, dismisses the simple safety steps I asked for as 'demands,' and turns my pain around by calling me the 'angry one.'

​It mirrors what some of you described: the feeling that he is just waiting for me to get tired enough to break and take the lead on leaving so he doesn't have to face the discomfort of doing it himself.

​BackfromtheStorm, your analogy about sneaking away from a healthy meal to grab foul junk food really resonated, too. It is maddening to try to rationalize behavior that is driven by escapism, dopamine, and a broken ego rather than any reality in our actual marriage.

​Hearing how you all found the strength to stop spinning your wheels, take back control, and at least get your ducks in a row (or consult lawyers just to see the facts instead of living in fear of the unknown) gives me a lot to think about. It’s terrifying to think about letting go of the old marriage entirely, but staying in a one-sided ghost town where I'm doing all the heavy lifting is draining the life out of me.

​Thank you again for the virtual hugs and the hard truths. I really needed to hear them today 🙏

Hearing how you all found the strength to stop spinning your wheels, take back control, and at least get your ducks in a row (or consult lawyers just to see the facts instead of living in fear of the unknown) gives me a lot to think about. It’s terrifying to think about letting go of the old marriage entirely, but staying in a one-sided ghost town where I'm doing all the heavy lifting is draining the life out of me.

Just remember, gathering information is not the same thing as actually filing, and even filing isn't the same thing as ending it on the spot. The process takes time, and it can be paused or stopped at any point along the way. You don't have to tell him you've started gathering info right away if you're not ready yet. But it sure wouldn't hurt for you have have an ace up your sleeve should things take a turn for the worse.

​

Thank you again for the virtual hugs and the hard truths. I really needed to hear them today

There's more where that came from. Keep posting. It helped me just having a space to get it out and have people who understand to bounce my thoughts off of. Ask questions or just vent if you need to. We've been there. We hear you.

[This message edited by Pogre at 2:34 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

My husband was also mean, nasty and an altered version. She was his soul mate I now agree she probably was. His soul was black and burnt as was hers. A Perfect match.

I think some people seek out sex that makes them feel dirty or degraded. It’s not uncommon.
You may want to explore or research that. Also look at the secret basement by Minwalla.

The dopamine hit and limerance you describe matches my experience too. I thought he had initially gone mad. Then when I found out it all made sense.

There really is a script op, it’s the same script different players.

Does your spouse possess the traits needed to reconcile successfully? It doesn’t sound like he does. Mine doesn’t either. He was my lovely husband but now (a few years later) I see him very differently. He has no self respect. He clearly has little idea what love or commitment means. Lies, avoiding conflict, and malice. While pretending to be a good guy. Sad really.
I was in a bad way but 4 years later I’m far better. He has done little work and now his flaws light up like a Christmas tree.

Does he see himself as the good guy?

Stays in control of his emotions driving you to anger? So you get cross and he says ‘told you so’. He looks like the nice guy with the crazy wife?

That was me, he was kind and rational. I was stressed to the heavens (4 children) and working full time.

I have let go of the rope. I laugh, worked on friendships, worked very very hard on me. I rather liked me quite quickly but kept telling myself I was lovely. He even criticised me for liking myself . I mean wth? Criticised me for actually liking who I am. He clearly wanted me on my knees! Some of the things he has said are truly bizarre.

Let go of the rope? Would that help?
Big breath. Thank you for your thoughts. That’s interesting.

Sorry me again! A few things that helped me:

A play list - do not include any songs that are from your relationship. Only ones from
Today onwards. If you heard it before - do not include. That playlist is my joy.

Dance and sing - on your own. With children. But dance, make up daft routines on the spot. Be silly. If he comments shrug.

Journal - I’m a bit rubbish but I did it for a month or so and it helped clear my head.

Walk.

Found a podcast I like - it’s long and has guests.

Worked on my circle of associates- this was hard as I didn’t talk about what a bad place I was in. I was very bad at one point. I remember the stress causing hives all over my body. It was so odd.

Cry and tell yourself it will be okay - just like you would say it to a friend.

Look at pictures of people who you love and have shown you kindness. Grandmother for example. Put her on the wall in a frame. My grandmother loved me very very much and seeing her face (she died) helps me a lot. Light her a candle.

Some of these might be daft and I started a thread asking for more tips. As I still have a way to go.

The affair itself can provide the reward. The secrecy, the forbiddenness, the transgression, the escape from ordinary identity, the intermittent access, the anticipation, the validation, and the feeling of stepping outside normal life can create an extraordinarily powerful psychological state. The AP becomes the delivery mechanism for that state.

That is why some affair behavior looks almost incomprehensible from the outside. A person will tolerate ridiculous inconvenience, spend hours traveling, take risks that make no rational sense, lie badly, rearrange their entire schedule, and invest enormous amounts of energy in someone they do not even find particularly attractive.

Sorry u am late to the party here-what little ink is talking about was my experience in cheating.
I keep thinking that my feelings and who the AP was didn’t make any sense.

One thing that made the drug of the affair so powerful is I had suffered from a low grease depression and emotional exhaustion for a long period leading up to the affair. Was your husband experiencing depression or having any personal crisis prior to? I don’t mean that in a way of excusing anything, but when you are low on dopamine those rushes from the affair itself are extremely potent. I basically wanted to live in that fantasy world 24/7.

Had I not already had the emotional exhaustion diagnosis, my husband would have probably questioned my state more. He knew I was not very present or interactive with him. I actually had sexual dysfunction leading up to, during, and after my affair (meaning I didn’t actually experience sexual pleasure which was very odd for me. Not even if I tried by myself.) So there was a lot going on that would look like it did with you husband.

But despite any of that, accountability is paramount. Your husband knew what he was doing was wrong, he made those decisions and I doubt (though none of us can be sure) that he was drugged.

I hope he is in therapy to dig for the contributing factors that led to his decision to have an affair. He needs to do work on himself and saying you were drugged doesn’t lend itself to that work.

I do think that an addiction forms to the dopamine/adrenaline and that someone who is feeling very low could be most susceptible to it. So my guess is he needs to look at his coping mechanisms as part of that introspection.

Pat

What we tend to fear the most is uncertainty…
It’s like if we were walking along a path at night in a dark forest and hear a strange sound ahead: We are afraid of what it MIGHT be more than we might be afraid of the actual cause. If we have the courage to walk on, we might eventually make out the outlines of an open gate making a banging noise in the wind, or we might see a bear… When we originally heard the noise we had no clue. Now we know, and can act accordingly. Running away from a bear might make sense, but running away from a noisy gate… not so much.
I think the first thing you need to do is UNDERSTAND divorce in your area of IKEA-land. Not because you plan to divorce, hope to divorce or will divorce. It’s more like trying to understand what threat MIGHT lie ahead. Are your fears about a future without him a bear, or simply some banging harmless noise you can overcome.

When you have that knowledge, you know your options.
Those options range from total inaction:
You rug-sweep the affair, accept his explanations, subdue your questions and try to find some way of portray a happy marriage. Who knows – you can totally separate yourself emotionally and socially from him, and create some form of "family". Sort-of like getting used to the smell of surtromming…
They can also be the demand for change, and varying pressure to attain that change.
They can also be to simply accept that once you know the dangers ahead, then separation and divorce might be what you want all along.

You don’t need to select your option now. I’m assuming the total inaction one is off the table. I definitely hope so… But there are plenty of options before the ultimate end-the-marriage one…

One you understand your options… I recommend a serious, open discussion where you both try to outline what you want off each other and off the marriage. Then evaluate the common goals and what’s needed to reach them. It wont be a single, one-off conversation, but if you two can set small, significant and attainable goals (for example: we will talk about the affair without confrontation for two hours every Thursday for the next 4 weeks, followed by a joint trip to the gym/walk in the forest/go look at Volvo’s…, or we will work on these assignments to help heal our marriage… or whatever.

Then it’s up to you to evaluate the progress… And make it clear to him that if this isn’t progressing in a manner that you believe is good for BOTH of you then it’s gradually making your third-to last desired result (divorce) less frightening, compared to the worst option of inaction, or the present situation of status-quo.

Thank you all so much for reading and for these replies. Reading your experiences feels like holding up a mirror to my own chaotic living room right now.

​Abcd89, that line about "staying in control of emotions driving you to anger so he looks like the nice guy with the crazy wife" hit me right in the chest. That is literally what just happened with the neighbors outside. When he pushed me to the edge and I snapped, he immediately weaponized it to shout about me being "bipolar" while staying coldly detached. It’s maddening.

​What makes it even harder is how easily he is influenced. When I first found out about the affair, he gave his family a completely different narrative so he wouldn't look bad. Now, he's trapped in the lie he told them. Weeks ago, when he visited his family—his mother is a notoriously manipulative narcissist—he came back completely detached, treating me like the enemy based on the fake story he originally fed them. It's like going back to them reinforces his false narrative and hardens his heart against my reality.

​Hikingout and Bigger, your insights about the dopamine-driven fantasy world and understanding the "bear vs. noisy gate" make so much sense. I’ve been living in total fear of the unknown, paralyzed by the status quo.

​I have put his clothes in the spare room, and I am stepping back. I need to drop the rope, stop trying to drag remorse out of someone who refuses to look in the mirror, and focus on my own peace and my children. Thank you for not sugarcoating it and for giving me a safe place to breathe.

Pat77, obviously I don't know you or your husband, but he's just trying to avoid responsibility for his affair. Like a child. He wants to either blame it on her, blame it on you, blame it on sun spots, or whatever, but he won't take responsibility for it. HE DECIDED HE WANTED TO DO THIS HIMSELF. He's not under hypnosis or any kind of magic spell, for some reason he decided, on his own, because the opportunity came up - she came on to him apparently - and he took it. That's why people cheat. It's always the reason why people cheat....BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, BECAUSE THEY CAN, AND BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. And they often do. They don't think much about getting caught and many figure if they do, oh, my spouse will forgive it because....why not. In my opinion, someone who cheats on their spouse, other than perhaps a one night stand, doesn't respect their spouse or have much regard for them. Oh, they won't find out, oh they'll get over it, blah blah. They cheat because they want to and think they can get away with it. This woman is a classic cheating opportunity....someone who presented herself to him and gave him the opportunity. These are often not the best people - Sydney Sweeney (the latest Marilyn Monroe type) is not lurking in the bushes waiting for our husbands. It's usually somebody at the office, or a bar fly or someone like that.

Like any drug, they always get into this stuff thinking they can control it. You can't control the drug, you can't control the booze, and you can't control the affair. It always spirals out of control in some way or spouse finds out, and that's the way it goes down most of the time. So this is HIS FAULT, it's on HIM, he should be making efforts to make this up to you and to show he would never do this again because....he probably will do this again particularly if he thinks he got away with it or you didn't make a big deal out of it. IS THIS A BIG DEAL TO YOU? I think so. And you should act like it is because marital fidelity and trust is at the heart of any marriage and without those things....THERE IS NO MARRIAGE. It's a mirage. So you need to stand up for yourself because I bet you've always put yourself last in your relationship and you cater to him. If that's true, stop it. You have to be a prize to be won. You've got to be something he values more than that bag he was cheating with.

I would ask, why do you even want to continue this relationship. After cheating I think most people continue their relationships out of some combination of habit, fear of change, concerns over kids, money, fear of being alone, inertia....not good reasons, not positive reasons. If you were just dating this guy and you found out about this....would you keep dating him? Would you marry a guy who would do this to you? Do you really love this guy? Why? Why do you love him? I would question if I wanted to continue this relationship - not for assorted reasons, but whether I really love him and why and how can I tolerate this kind of behavior?

So I would ask these questions and maybe send your thinking down a different path. I would not try to figure out what mysterious powers she has over him. The mystery is that she's a new place to park his junk. That's the great mystery.
Personally I would seriously consider divorce and I'd let him know you want him to shape up, if you even want to continue this relationship. Don't rug sweep this - that doesn't work, it just festers underground. Why did he do this, what's he going to do to make it up to you, and how do you know he's not gonna do this in the future. Remember that YOU are the prize and he needs to make you feel and believe that he did a terrible thing, he wronged you badly, and he wants to make up for it and won't do it again.

ALWAYS CONSIDER DIVORCE AS AN OPTION. I am a great advocate of divorce for cheating. I think it usually is the right solution, but that's an individual choice of course. I think people should always be willing to consider it seriously though as an option, otherwise I think you just become kind of a hostage to a marriage that can become more like a prison.

Good luck and let us know how you're doing. Obviously everyone here has different ideas and opinions, some may work and help, some may not. My bottom line here is: This is HIS fault, don't blame yourself, and don't rug sweep. This is a wound that has to be addressed, cleaned, tended to, and healed in some way, whatever it is that you choose.