Apprehensively posting again

Been a while since posting about my situation. Not a while since writing, considering posting, and deciding not to, but actually hitting submit hasnt been doable.

Im embarrassed, even in an anonymous format. I feel judged here sometimes. Even so, I know its a me thing. Im a handful. And I know it.

First thing to say is that finding support isnt working out. Im not doing a great job of processing my feelings by myself, however.

The Infidelity specialist whom we were seeing this summer was pushing me to accept Ww’s representations of the whole story as complete so we could start working her process on healing. We had just agreed to do this when I came to know about another AP outside of the understood period of infidelity, as well as suspicious things that might indicate things continued years later with the two prior primary APs. When I brought that up, She made recommendations to go to ICs for each of us and essentially fired us.

A break from therapy ensued. I began a soft 180, began to work out, clean up my diet, and focus inwardly. I made decisions to disengage and claim space if I needed it, stop digging for truth, and to do things I wanted to do. This is where she picked fights a lot over control of my behaviors. Briefly, these fights started about bedtimes and insomnia, alcohol and nicotine use, and hierarchy of the cat vs myself.

These fights would become about how I handled her affairs, what I had done to our relationship, how long this has been a thing and how sick of it all she is, and what it all says about my masculinity. Fights would end with me leaving the house to get space. she would renounce the things she said, apologize, then do it again in the next occasion. It was like I was dealing with two separate people.
It was awful, abusive, and I started to examine the exit door.

She sensed this and decided she was the problem, claiming revelation. She started a DBT class and found a therapist whom she liked, who featured as a guest several times in a popular infidelity recovery podcast. reached out and scheduled.

This Therapist saw each of us individually twice, and then would meet us together for a couples session.

We were both pronounced deeply codependent after our first two sessions, which we knew. I was given some writing assignments and Ww was asked to go to CODA.

At our first joint session, we were informed that all therapeutic discussions going forward would be about current ongoing problems exclusively, and that the infidelity wouldnt qualify because it had been discussed to death and the dead horse was "starting to stink".

We were lead to share how we had been harmed by family and the parallel ways we were harming each other, apologize, and make resolutions to give amends.

WW was lead to apologize for using me, abusing me, lying and cheating. Her amends are to go forward not doing those things.

I was lead to apologize for criticizing her, threatening to leave, and making her live under constant interrogation. My amends are to stop litigating the past, not use criticizing language, and to not use the fear of divorce as leverage.

This put me in a stifled place. I had just learned that Ww’s mom had encouraged her to go and hang out with J during times when I was stuck at work behind my back, and used a nail salon appointment late in the day with her daughter to construct an alibi for why I might arrive home before Ww, when she was out on a boat with 2 APs. A major lie about this incident also became uncovered. She likely didnt know about the cheating, but was certainly encouraging the lying, sneaking, secret social life, and violating my boundaries.
She had taken a somewhat adversarial view of me for the past two years since this all came out, and has blamed me for my inability to heal. Let it go or leave, so Ww has time left to have kids with someone else.

Felt like I was drowning, but since this amounted to past litigation and criticism, I was pinned.

The therapist didnt want to hear it. If It didnt happen in the last two years, or did and was related to the past, it was off the table.

He did want me to identify what lacked in the relationship; respect. He identified that as a need, and the desire to process the betrayal as a misguided want that would do more damage. He advised me to grow some balls, stop being a child and do more work on my codependency.

I think thats valid, but it lands a bit like going to an orthopedic with a dislocated shoulder and having them only wanting to vest in treating scoliosis. Yeah, I have a curved spine but this dislocation is kind of pressing. Can we look at why I came here? Nope, wear this back brace.

Ww had her next session with him, and It was about parental enmeshment. Her parents had just started a pressure campaign to get her to change jobs to one at her fathers company of employment. Ww likes her current job, and probably makes more than she would, and has a very short commute. It was strange. They were going into the restaurant Ww works at, discussing it every day, telling her what to do to improve her odds of getting the job and what questions would be in the interview and how she must answer them. They did this every day for about a month.
Therapist encouraged her to set boundaries.

Next session was a joint one. All discussion and focus at home was on her parents and the job pressure. So that was the topic of this session as well. I expressed I was frustrated that our relationship problems have been totally sidelined by this, that she was so avoidant with me but so invested in her parents peculiar life running efforts. He reiterated boundary formation. Didnt schedule a next appointment because of thanksgiving, and neither side has reached out to reengage and continue therapy.

I figure we wont see him again.

Ww declined the interview and her father has pulled back from her, emotionally. What can ya do?

The therapist was right about me needing to increase my self reliance.
Im stable, but not good. Im going to keep focusing on my physical health for the time being. I feel pretty lost and abandoned, socially isolated. The bitterness is a little oppressive. Time is helping. No satisfaction will come from continuing how I was. What is healing anyway?

Ww has at least been open to talking to me, hasnt been raging out, very loving and kind since I was supportive while her parents were trying to control her life about her career direction. Still doing her DBT course, and shes seeing the course teacher for IC.

I wonder why I decided to share this? Its my deal to figure out. Its my responsibility. Hmm.

13 comments posted: Friday, December 12th, 2025

Condom conundrum.

So. Here I am again ready to write another post. Its update time.

Some of you have followed my story. Synopsis is premarriage period of infidelity spanning at least 9 months in 2014, probably longer. 2 regular APs, a handful of one time sexual encounters, an encounter involving two one time partners in the backseat of the primary Aps car while he drove, allegedly not participating. Total denial of any PIV with this cast of colorful characters.

Now 11 years of trickle truth. Ww passed a polygraph in 2024. Subsequent discoveries however, cast doubt(more like discredited) polygraph result.

One of my discoveries was an audit of our old condoms that were lying around the house. This is my initial ledger of my findings.

" December 1, 2024

Telegram app

(Aps name) number in contacts not blocked, hidden contact by putting space in front of no name.

Multiple Secret emails going back to at least when working bev cart all the way to now.

A condom I never recall having an example of the brand(Crown), dont think i had ever seen, cannot buy in store locally, under a sex toy box from 2018 in her bedside drawer. Expired 2015.

Expired 2014 condoms, (trojan spermicidal) only 7 in box. Did not like, used others, usually did not use any. Two 36 count boxes of(trojan magnum) condoms in my bedside drawer. Condoms bought 2019, expiring 2024. Near always left condom wrappers in drawer. Rarely used condoms. boxes from 2019. 37 used condom wrappers in drawer, 16 unopened. 19 condoms unaccounted for. Sometimes used to cover toys, definitely not 19 times. Only one trip since 2019. Did not use any on trip.

Possible some wrappers left on floor and thrown away. Doubtful all accountable that way.

Any of this worthwhile?"

And heres my update;

March 9, 2025.

A little while after my condom audit back in December, one morning I woke up hearing Ww rustling around in her bedside drawer. She informed me she was cleaning up and putting the condom box of 7 condoms inside of the 2018 sex toy box. I didnt think anything of it at the time. I reaudited the condoms today. The number of expired condoms in that box has increased. Previous count was 7. Now there are 10. One of the ten is a trojan magnum expired 2019, not from the set of condoms at bedside drawer. Was from previous box(preceding the ones that expired 2024 in my bedside nightstand) of trojan magnums purchased 2014. Foil wrapper is crinkled, worn and was clearly stored in a wallet or clothing. The other two are trojan spermicidal from this box, now returned but were not present on dec 1, 2024 when I did first audit. (Ww) obviously had them somewhere ready to go from back then(circa 2014-2015), knew where, got them and put them in the box that morning so I wouldnt find.

Conclusion; still covering up, lying, hiding. Considering this checkmate for PIV.

An overnight bag in master closet has 8 trojan magnums expiring 2019 in it. A travel bag has one. These condoms were from the 2014 purchased box. They clearly are not where the three returned condoms came from and are probably from vacations between 2014-2019. But why so many in the overnight bag? Overnight bag also has mouthwash, shampoo, lotion, bodywash, contact case. Maybe nothing to learn here.

Post dinner update:

Confronted Ww about returned condoms on way to dinner this evening. Total Denial. Says one of us is going crazy. Says she is afraid she is doing things and not knowing it. Light accusal of me doing it, same as when jonathans number was not blocked, and individual texts found deleted from our text thread during our review of 2014 texts between us. Admits she might have carried condoms around, but did not use any. She said, "i feel gaslit". Yeah, me too."

We had a later conversation after I wrote this update. It was chock full of the same denials and tapdancing. But I took her upstairs and showed her the condoms. Upon seeing the crinkled magnum, she said, "maybe its from this purse I have in my car that has the perfect pocket to fit condoms". She produced the purse, and indeed, it has perfect zippered pockets to hold condoms. Hmm. She admitted to carrying condoms, but not using them. Says she returned them so I wouldnt find them in the purse because it would "look bad". But doesnt remember actually putting them back.

She began to narrativize that she was carrying the condoms for use with me. I countered that she has never produced a condom for us to use when we were about to have sex, and she admitted she might have been carrying them to use with other people if things got to far, but that they never did. Im so frustrated I could shit.

We just started with a new therapist, a betrayal specialist, a few days after this discovery. First meeting was ok. I have trepidation. Specialist wants to attribute memory problems to alcohol use back during 2014. I think thats bullshit but will see where it goes.

One of the things that has me scratching my head about all this is, why return the ancient expired condoms to the fucking box?

If she threw them out Id have never known. If I had good housekeeping, Id have never known. If I hadnt looked at everything in my world under a microscope, I wouldnt have caught it.

But now I fucking know.

231 comments posted: Saturday, March 29th, 2025

Hung up on my mother this morning

Spoke to my mom this morning. Havent been in a good place, flooding all over.

Got a counseling session coming up feb 13. Im Not looking forward to it. An incident last weekend where my wayward and I decided to make cocktails spiralled into the ground. She dumped a rapid fire spray of resentments on me.

She resents me digging into her accounts and emails and past coms. She felt that our situation was not equal, that she feels she has no rights. I retorted that to be equal, I would have to have multiple affairs and then lie about it for a decade.

So obviously it was off to the races, as they say.

I was blamed for her losing touch and relationships with her old friends. Expressed her anger at me talking to everyone in our family circle to "ruin her reputation to punish her". Blamed for our joint decision to sign up for her company health plan which is only telehealth and rx. Blamed for her headache and emotional distress, because we each had 2 oz of vodka in a martini.

I wanted to sleep seperately. I started to detach and uninvest in the conversation.

She never came off the offensive, broke down and cried, begged me to come to bed and comfort her (accusing me of punishing her if i didnt) until I broke down, abandoned my boundaries and just did it.

On and on it goes. It shattered something. Something broke.

Counseling session is supposed to be all about beginning to work on her "whys". Im not particularly amenable to a pity party excuse factory. I dont want to watch her weedle around. And if anyone tries to characterize anything I did in our relationship as causal or attributes responsibility of her choices to me, Im gonna do a fucking backflip.

So, I was hurting about this and related it to my mom, who said, "really? You dont think you have any responsibility in this? You didnt want to get married to that girl and I dont think you understand how that makes her feel."

Its just not true. I wanted to wait to marry her until I could be sure this love wasnt a mirage, so that I wouldnt be in the exact fucking situation I am in. And she outmaneuvered me with her lies and pinned me in that situation anyways.

I was, in those days, under a shitload of pressure from everyone to marry her. While she was cheating, she did hit me with us not being married, tears in her eyes, telling me about people insinuating that I wasnt sincere about my commitment to her.

When we did get married, multiple female family members hit me at the celebrations with "its about time".

Same people now know about the cheating, and are calling it ancient history that I need to get over.

She had been lying to me for 5 years about the affairs at the time we got married. Noone gives a shit. Why should I.

And my own mother, rather than have my back, tells me if I wasnt so slow to invoke a judges magic words to declare our bond valid, she probably would have never run all over creation for male sexual validation.

Fuck these people.

37 comments posted: Tuesday, February 4th, 2025

Eroticized trauma, wayward indifference, total snafu

Early on in my romantic and sexual life, in my teens till my 20s, I experienced a longterm relationship with a serial cheater. My first experience with betrayal was the discovery of an online diary written by my then girlfriend describing sexual encounters with others. I was overcome with the pain we are all familiar. My body rejected the discovery, I was disgusted, ran to the bathroom, vomiting. I was on a rechargeable phone with her at the time. She found it hilarious, just dessert for me invading her privacy.

I did not, and still do not, possess the self respect I needed to extract myself. I stayed in that doomed relationship as a person doomed to things I could not accept. For one thing, I was a fresh high school drop out, now almost completely without peers except for her. It was clear that she was test driving and interviewing countless prospective replacements for me while using me for emotional and sexual validation in the meantime. I was treated to fun discussions about the characteristics she wanted in a mate. If only she could have my face, his body, so an so’s confidence, my devotion, asshole’s skill with his tongue, that dude over theres prospects. I conceded every boundary I thought I had. I persisted that way for 8 years in total.

Isolated from peers and without support at home, drowning in self pity and intrusive thoughts about what she was doing with others while I had eyes only for her, I was simultaneously a horny teenage boy. The environment I was in stretched out thresholds and parameters that should never have been touched, and I found my pain and arousal confusingly entangled.

A painful, loathsome, disgusting yearning. An awful secret wish. Something I couldnt find support for.

I got that way because I was abused and didnt free myself. To my young self, I couldnt live without her, I couldnt change her nature. But what if I could have friends? What if I could have love? What if I could have sex with my girl, she could have sex with other people, we could eat food and play video games and have cool conversations and we could all be in agreement that it was just some big lovefest where I wasnt discarded and none of it was cruel? All I had to do is be down with it right? Could all my pain and misery just be put away like that?

The fantasy never met reality. That relationship was not salvageable. No adaptation of myself to her behavior could have changed it. Other ways to betray me were conceived of and implemented.

When my generation became college aged, It became possible for me to de isolate myself socially. I built a group of not very good friends of my own. Bought a car, got fit. Started to feel the love fade. Started to see other females as a possibility. Eventually embraced the idea that monogamy wasnt feasible. The cheating girl I thought I was going to end up with forever was just a friend, for however long that was worthwhile to keep. I had misunderstood relationships, she had not, and I was eager to see new experiences in the light of that understanding.

But the parasite, the scar, the fetish of seeing my woman in a sexual context with other men outside of a betrayal nibbled at the edge of my brain.

Eventually, I met Ww. She was(is) timid and squeaky, tall, lean, and very pretty. She was aggressively interested in me, wanted as much of me, and all of it she could get, out of the gate. I saw a reflection of her intentions in a younger, pre betrayal me. I wanted her, and I wanted to protect her from my experience. I could not do with seeing her harmed in the ways I was. She was jealous and insecure. I cut off other women. I believed in love again. I really didnt see it coming.

Long before the cheating, before the marriage,

When I shared my fetish with Ww, she was disturbed. Wanted nothing to do with it. We were supposed to be each others sexual one and only, she wanted only me, supposedly. I still had the itch, but I was happy about that.

I found out about the extent of her cheating this year a decade after the events supposedly ended. We’ve been in therapy. She passed a polygraph on her timeline. We arent rugsweeping.

One of my hurdles to healing is the realization that she rejected my olive branch to the urges and desires she pretended not to have, preferring to have the appearance of monogamy, but secretly making it one sided. Our relationship was happy, we had great sex, we had goals. She was insecure about other women, angrily accusing me of noticing females in grocery isles and such, which I do not do, while she secretly conducted affairs and sexual arrangements with customers and coworkers for at least a 9 month long period of time.

She knew about my little problem, knew I was willing to accommodate her, knew she didnt have to make it a betrayal. But chose to. I cant grok that.

She only considered leaning into it once when I became suspicious and angry about her and her coworkers. They seemingly made a stupid plan to create a situation where a threesome might occur with her, me and her primary Ap. To get the affair out of the closet; hide the cake eating by possibly blaming me for things getting out of hand. To get out of trouble by getting out in front of it, using my stupid fantasy. They tried to create a situation where the Ap had nowhere to stay that evening, and she offered our home as a solution. I shot them down, sensing deception.

At the time I lacked critical information to see it for what it is. But now, with context, I know it means that
1. They discussed my suspicions
2. They asked each other what they should do
3. She shared my fetish
4. They discussed a workaround involving it
5. Scripted the scenario
6. Put on the play in front of me to see if Id eat the bait.

Thats alot of consecutive things that piss me off.
I asked Ww if thats how the planning side shook out. "Probably not", she said. Do you remember it happening? "Not really, but I believe you", she said. "I remember sitting at the table in the bar that night." Who really knows.

In therapy, our therapist asked me to build a list of my needs. She noted I wasnt giving my Ww anything she could do to help me with my pain, just ranting about events in the timeline. Its a fair criticism.

I mentioned this issue in my homework assignment. Ww comes up empty handed on how to make me feel better. Let me know she would Never, never, never be interested, will not ever do it. Suits me. By my recognizance of what has happened, we arent eligible. Its dead. But Im bitter about it, because I still have the problem and she cant think of anything to say to help. The things she did are germane to the reasons I developed this disfunction.

She produced for and trusted the Ap with a nude she made. Never did that for me. When we were driving home from family, we had a sexual and flirtatious conversation. It was ruined when I suggested she take and send me a dirty picture. She acted like I would use it as evidence against her in a divorce, and refused.

A few days later, i suggested we go and sneak into the place where she and her Ap screwed around and bang it out so I could make it mine. Refusal. Too risky, trespassing, etc. Fine, I guess, thats reasonable, but she risked us and her job to do that with him.

Im learning shitloads of things about the things Im upset about, and am finding my ability to accept them, her willingness to do anything to make me feel better about them unsatisfactory.

Its getting hard for me to live with the things I have learned about who I am to her. I feel I was chosen for my safety, devotion, and utility as a partner. Since she cheated, that feels repugnant.

I never got better from the longterm scars from my previous betrayal. Im losing hope I will recover in any meaningful way from this one, too. Doesnt leave me much room to like sex, people, or myself. Id do anything to unfuck my self respect. Id do anything to unshare what happened to me with my wife.

I cant tell you how hard this was to write.

32 comments posted: Sunday, December 29th, 2024

Heres my story so far.

Maybe this isnt fully the right place. My situation is 10 years old, and I experienced some level of discovery at the time. But this year is the first year I am processing this in earnest.

My(37) wife(34) used to be a beverage cart girl and server/bartender at a golf course and country club way back in 2014 before we were married.

It was 10 years ago, and I was stupid and young and we were in love, having our first go at making it on our own.
So we socialized with her coworkers. The executive chef(B), a male server(J), a female server(k), and various other male and female coworkers at bars, houses, and events. Sometimes happened with a group of members of the club, (P) and (H).

Timeframe for cheating begin and end dates are lost to time. But should be march, all the way to september. And maybe even later.

My personal knowledge of her cheating at the time was limited. Red flags were her warning me that J was very flirtatious. I asked her if she could handle it, and she scoffed, saying he was disgusting and that she would never let anything happen. I accepted this and we continued socializing around him and others.

For a time, an older member of the club (P) would give my wife $100 every time he saw her. From time to time, we would run into him and his friends at bars and restaurants and socialize. One evening at an irish pub, they and we were drinking and hanging out. A bachelorette party came in and they abandoned us to go harrass the ladies involved. My wife immediately started crying, and I paid for our drinks and we left. It was a big wtf is going on moment for me. She had no explanation.

Same month, we were socializing with some of her coworkers at a different members(H) house. We were intoxicated and I was waiting out my BAC to feel safe to drive home. After her coworkers left, My wife, H, and I remained in his home. Eventually, he grabbed my wife from behind, hands on breasts and began to kiss her neck. They were both staring at me. She did nothing to stop him. I paced the room for a few seconds, mulling over attacking a bigger man in his own home. Calmed down, grabbed her hand and dragged her out of there. "Why didnt you stop him, say no, come over to me, anything?" I asked. "I froze", she replied.

One day she was scared because P had been seen "being handsy" with her out on the golf course by course workers. Her boss asked if she was ok. She told him she was. I begged to make a "thing" out of it, and she made me promise I wouldnt. Ran into him at a mcdonalds a bit later. He literally ran from me.

Months went on. One day while i was at work, she called to ask if she could go on a boat ride with coworkers. I asked which ones, and she listed only male names, including J and B. So I got mad and told her hell no. She claimed for years not to have gone on that boat.

We met them later at a bar the same day and they were all shaming me for not trusting my girlfriend. I explained that we had a rule about opposite sex friends being only for hanging out with both of us present, that it was her idea, that I wasnt the jealous one, and that i purged all my female friends when we were dating at her request. They all started laughing. Holy shit, is that true? They asked her. She stared at the floor. Later she was angry that I humiliated her, and "made our shit everyone elses business".

One evening, same bar, I saw her phone light up with a text. From J. I made a mental note of it because they were both right there. I watched her put her password into her phone and memorized it. Later i got into her phone and all texts from j were gone. Pretending not to know, I asked her to show me her phone. She was smug till i asked her where the text i saw her get that night went. Deer in the headlights. Not so smug now. We fought. She claimed that he was pursuing her, and she didnt want me to hate him so she deleted it. Never believed it, but I was still stupid and thats where I fucked up.

Sometime later i had a bad week and got shitcanned off of a big construction project. That night there was going to be a big party for the staff at a nightclub. I told her i didnt want to go out and that without me, she shouldnt. She begged me. We made a plan that she would go with a couple we knew whom I trusted. She was to come back with them, and call me to pick her up if anything went off plan. She rode off with them at 7:30pm.

At 3am, she asked me to come pick her up an hour away from our house at Ks house. When I got there, K asked me to let her have sleepovers in the future. In the car, I demanded to understand why she didnt stick to the plan, and what happened?

She told me the couple abandoned her, and she ended up getting a ride to B’s house with J and K. Just then, her phone lit up with texts from K talking about how good she felt and how wet she was. She immediately revised the story that K was all over her on the car ride and said that when they got to B’s house, she went up to use the bathroom. When she came out, the lights were off and she screamed. B and J apparently didnt like that and threw her and K out. K drove her to K’s house and that where I picked her up.

I blew up and we fought and i involved her mother and things went to shit for a month. We stopped socializing, she begged me to stay. I acquiesced. Wanted the relationship. Fairly sure she ended things with J to retain me.

Years went by with nothing of the sort. There were small revelations when it came up, but she stuck largely to her story. We got married in 2019 and bought a house. We have a happy little life.

Except…. It comes up every couple of years and I slowly learn more and more.

P was apparently giving her money and then pinching her vagina over her clothes. Later he would stick his hands down her shorts and finger her.

After marriage, I learned that she got fingered by B and K at the same time in the back of that car, J drove, and I’m supposed to believe the rest of the story as told. Shes stuck to that.

ive since learned that J and her were meeting in private places at work to make out, and she apparently only got fingered those times as well. She acted like she was an unwilling participant who couldnt say no. Like he was pressuring her into it. How often? All the time!

But later, I learned that he would text her where, and she would go to him. After this revelation, it only happened 7 times that she could remember.

I learned this year, 10 years later that she did go on that boat, but made them turn it around and take her back.
I learned that they made out at her car before she got on the boat.
and that one time she went to the club to make out with him during his closing shift on a day off for her when I was working.

And that one time she sent him a nude. Which led to the discovery that when I learned texts were being deleted, all coms moved to snapchat.

And this past sunday I just learned that one time when they made out, her shorts were off. Because "he wanted to see my butt in the mirror while we made out".

Its like my world is blown open. Ive moved past this not knowing what really happened, and Im devastated. I thought we worked through this. I feel so fucking stupid. She says no sex ever happened with any of these people. Doesnt remember anything else. And of course, each time, Ive told you everything. Till the next time.

I really blew up this time. The character of how this was perceived by me has totally changed. But truly, I was just ignoring my gut and accepting her stories before. I dont know If Ill ever believe her again now. And for the first time, its actually hitting me.

We are doing infidelity workbooks and seeing a counseler. 2 sessions so far. Im disappointed, she isnt really talking in sessions much. She believes herself to be done with disclosure and I keep learning game changing information.

Im here for the long haul and love the shit out of this woman. I dont know how Im going to keep all my promises now. My home doesnt feel like a home, my marriage feels like a sham, and I feel worse than I did when my Dad died. My life feels over, and the parts I loved feel like a tacky lie.

Any advice, compassion, sharing, or thoughts is welcome and appreciated. Thank you for reading, thank you for caring.

157 comments posted: Sunday, March 31st, 2024